Curse

Hawkeye · Aug 31, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Wanna know how you can make a warrior so pissed off that he'll leave AB? I do it all the time. *twiddles thumbs*

Cast empathy on them, and let them kill themselves. When they run at you because they've reached the point of not caring whether or not they kill themselves as long as they kill you, you run away, casting wastel's worry on them first. Once they turn around (seeing how they're now at 30% health and chasing a mesmer who casts empathy on you is not going to turn out well), you cast wastel's worry on them again. At that point, they're screwed. They either can't get back to the battle fast enough to use an attack skill or they do and empathy kills them.

I've had quite a few warriors cuss me out and leave due to this.

Needless to say, the joke never gets old for me.

the_jos · Aug 31, 2007, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Main PvE character is a mesmer.
It's a character that's good for playing in organized teams.
I hardly ever take him in PuGs for that reason.

Nerfs have not been bad lately, at least not in my builds.
The only nerfs that hurt were some inspiration nerfs because of usage on other professions.

However, if those hurt a lot, you are probably not playing your mesmer right.
I got comment on one of my e-management skills for long loading time.
Well, it's enough for me, since I am not the nuker pumping skills like mad on a target.

gloria vander belt · Aug 31, 2007, 11:16 AM // 11:16

/signed

i cant stand all the noob's who say mesmers are useless all cus they ran into a few crap players and follow the other sheep while there at it.

Fact is i seen more useless players either Monking or Tanking, but i dont sit in a town or outpost bitching how crap they are, Either learn to play Mesmers or shut ur mouth, i think paragons are absoloutely useless, but thats my experience(Not really uselss tho), and in other experiences Necro's are useless(all tho they are not)....but then u gotta sit down pull ur finger out ur A$$ and realise hmm, is it the character's proffession or is it the player/build??

HMMMM, if u guessed proffession, do us a favor and dont bother playing Guild Wars, cus i could make a tank look like the worst class, and hell every time i take a mesmer in PvE with me it out does the elementalist and necros and dervish and paragons, but like most people u have ur Brick Walls coated in 3 inch gold, no matter what u do there not gonna crack and keep doing the same old crap.

so to u mesmer fans/myself our best objective is to ignore the mesmer abuse, and hope A-net cleans up its stupid nerfs, in the past 3 months the game has really gone down hill due to nerfs!!!!!!

Darkhell153 · Aug 31, 2007, 12:50 PM // 12:50

/signed, if this was applied to all the other classes as well it would completely shut down the ability for characters to abuse secondary classes.

Avarre · Aug 31, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Removing versatility by a change of this sort is a terrible idea. Guild Wars was designed with utilizing a secondary class in mind.

/not signed

WhiteLightHealing · Aug 31, 2007, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Anet nerd the shit out of necro/any,, my favorite necro/mes,, nerd the shit out of it, i dont even play it much anymore.

the Puppeteer · Aug 31, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

heh - just cus some ppl found a use for your precious skills you call it abuse...
eliminate the secondary proff. option is the solution XD

Hawkeye · Aug 31, 2007, 01:26 PM // 13:26

A lot of people don't take their time to analyze the mesmer.
Empathy on a monster costs 10 energy. That monster, in the duration of empathy ought to attack at least 5 or 6 times.

6*47 (at domination 16) = 282 unadulterated x-rated armor-piercing damage

That's right, folks. Now you can nuke a single target for 282 damage at a mere 10 energy. Empathy even recharges by the time the effects wear off so you can recast it.

Take another... Backfire deals 147 damage at level 16. Most monster casters cast 2 in the time of 10 seconds, which is an easy 294 damage for 15 energy. Some classes such as the necromancer and fellow mesmers tend to equip fast-casting spell, which means 3 or 4 spells are cast by the time they realize they have backfire on them, which means a quick 588 damage.

"But a player won't attack if they have empathy on them!" OR "But a player won't cast spells if they have backfire on them!"

All the better! It implies you've disabled an enemy player for the 18 seconds that empathy lasts while you place backfire on an enemy caster in the meantime and deal even more destruction, or at least 10 seconds towards an enemy caster while you look for a warrior to place empathy on. Even if you suck at pvp and stand there while warrior pounds you, you're guaranteed to almost kill him if you place empathy on him.

At that point, hex removal is a mesmer's enemy, and cover hexes are rather easily to find.

No other profession can do all of this. Any veteran player will adopt a mesmer in their AB group, because they know enemies fall like flies when they are around. Don't underestimate a mesmer. It's easy to do, which is another reason I love mesmers so much. 90% of warriors which think I'm such an easy target wind up dead, 5% retreat and manage to get away. It's only the 5% that get the better of me because I didn't spot them in time or because an assasin shadow jumped towards me.

Fitz Rinley · Sep 01, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

The only reason Mesmer monsters are disliked is because the AI automatically identifies the best and most opportune moment to apply the skill. They automatically interupt all traps, deny energy/adrenal at the right moment, strip ench. at the most critical moment, ect.

The only benefit to the nerf bat in the mesmer line is weakening the AI's perfect use of them. But as far as mesmers go in general I never take the Henchies because they are useless agains the monsters we fight. The monster mes are effective largely because they are in large groups. If they can offer 4 to 16 perfectly timed interupts on all traps, attunements, AoE initiated by a party at the beginning of a fight then they have a massive advantage. Real human players, who might have 1 or 2 party members that can do this could never manage to equal the perfect read/interupt of the AI.

Most mesmer skills rely upon very specific conditions to exist before they become advantagious. Yet, those Mesmer skills are not the one's you find on monsters. Monsters are almost always fully equiped with degen, damage prevention, and direct damage. The mesmer class is unrivaled in its ownership of conditional magic that requires the foe to have just had a 4th child born in the thrid phase of the vanished moon made by Alben and not Ulven in the 7th year of the great flood of ..., then you can do XXX amount damage.

For that reason I only play a mesmer for appearances and mild enjoyment. I would never take my mesmer anyplace serious. When I had my first Mes make it all the way to Fire Islands, back when Factions was still being set up, no one wanted a mes til they needed a certain final boss interupted a lot. Nor did they rely on the Mes alone to acomplish this. No one wanted to take a mes in RoF or Abaddon's. And certainly no one wanted a Dom mes.

I agree with the OP. And I also think linking the skill effectiveness of some specific skills to FC might help. But there are skills which are legitimate cross over skills, like the Mantras, which ought not to be touched. However, if Degen was increased by say +1 (rank 1) to +3 (Rank 16), or a damage buff similar to Divine Favor's healing buff were in effect then I think PC Mes would be improved. However, I am not sure I want these on monsters, as they are difficult enough.

haggus71 · Sep 01, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

/signed.

Actually, I was thinking it might be good to tie in fast cast to E-recharge time. Rangers have Experience, and Ele's have Energy Storage, so it would make sense. Let's face it. Even counting elites, most skills worth carrying are in the 10-15E range or take 20-30 seconds to recharge without MoR. If they raised the recharge rate with points in fast cast, it would give a nice buff without having to nerf skills every time someone gets owned in TA by someone using the skill in their secondary. At least make fast-cast more than a dump stat for every build other than MoR.

Count Stacy · Sep 01, 2007, 09:35 AM // 09:35

I don't know what you mesmers.. do other then echoing meteor shower.. and enchanting there weapon and hitting people while being blind. and being gwen. and some fat guy from elona.

Evilsod · Sep 01, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Rangers have Expertise... not Experience.

Coincidently fast casting is linked to recharge times... its called MANTRA OF RECOVERY. Just because faster casting isn't as useful in PvE doesn't mean its not useful. Its not like Strength and Spawning Power aren't mostly useless.

Toasted Doughnuts · Sep 01, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

/signed definatly, before they nerf the skill, they should try changing it like you suggested

Diddy bow · Sep 01, 2007, 02:07 PM // 14:07

/singed

Put all their cost/effects back to normal give them massive cast times (interupts ect aside) and buff FC to componsate. So you sort of need to be a mesmer to use them. It might lead to FC being abused on other classes but i doubt a mesmer could afford the energy to be a necro or ele. FC monk is just lol. The fc assassin thingy might get a bit better but it deals with near instant cast times anyway. A rit? mabay but they might not be to good without spawning power and rit spike isnt really vaible now.

haggus71 · Sep 02, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Evilsod: yeah, my bad on expertise. It was a long night.

Mantra of Recovery has NOTHING TO DO WITH ENERGY. I said link fast casting to ENERGY RECHARGE. We know if affects cast times. That isn't a big help with the style of PvE Anet has today, with mobs of lvl 24-26 and bosses at lvl 30. It wouldn't even have to be a large buff to make it useful.

As has been said before, compared to other classes, Mesmer's primary has little to offer compared to other classes. Necros can draw E off opponents easier(Signet of Lost Souls). Elees....what's the worry when you have 85-100+ energy and Dual Attunement builds? Sins make their own energy through Crits, which with crit agility and critical eye is easy to get. A ranger gets E recharge through EXPERTISE, has better armor with elemental damage resistance, and can stay back with the casters.

I'm not saying buff it ungodly. Just make it enough to compare to other professions' utility. Otherwise, Anet is making it so mesmers will always be a PvP-only profession, relegated in pve to enemies with AI reaction times that make life hell.

As far as abuse of other class secondaries, other classes are doing that now. How many times has a skill in the line been nerfed because of someone from another class abusing it?

Then again, it's not like anyone in ANET is going to read the mesmer thread, anyway. They obviously haven't for a while.

Avarre · Sep 02, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

Mantra of Recovery has NOTHING TO DO WITH ENERGY.

Considering energy management often depends on total pips added as determined by the net energy/recharge given by energy skills, I'd say doubling the net output of the skills by making them recharge twice as fast constantly has everything to do with energy.

haggus71 · Sep 02, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

I should have said nothing to do with energy gain. The skill itself does not affect the energy gain or loss, just the time between the use of the skills. Abuse of the skill will cause you to drain energy faster, however, which, in the scenario I mentioned, could happen very easily.

D E C E P T I V E · Sep 11, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

/notsigned

Me/E - fast casting nuker
oh noes! the nasty mesmers are abusing our ele skills :O... /sarcasm

Ummm, mesmers dont have the energy pool to abuse ele skills the way that eles do, not to mention we cant get 15 or 16 in fire magic which seems to be where the skills get really powerful for eles. Se yes fast casting helps, but with a mesmers energy pool and the attribute limitation you cant really call the use of ele skills by a mesmer primary abusive.

Just wasnt sure if you realized that or not

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Stacy

I don't know what you mesmers.. do other then echoing meteor shower.. and enchanting there weapon and hitting people while being blind. and being gwen. and some fat guy from elona.

You are obviously clueless when it comes to the mesmer class.

nunix · Sep 11, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

I don't know how many other professions/lines do this; but - especially in Death Magic - there are quite a few skills that have "50% chance to fail with <attribute> at 4 or less". Now this has always been same-linked skills - a Death Magic skill needs Death Magic 5+ - but you could cross-link it, we know the code supports it (see stuff like Lion's Comfort).

ACreator · Sep 11, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Rangers have Expertise... not Experience.

Its not like Strength and Spawning Power aren't mostly useless.

Most stupid thing u could say...

Those primary atributes arent great such as fast casting..

the diference is that those atributes have great skills!